Hidden Value with David Sherry

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Tanya, thank you so much for being here.

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And I'd sent you a form ahead of this conversation that was just kind of asking a

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little bit about what was present.

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And I thought it was interesting.

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You told me about a moment you had journaling this morning and trying to kind of

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identify what it is you want to work on.

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And so where I'd love to start is tell me about like that moment this morning and

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kind of what came up for you.

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Yeah, I was going through Dickie Bush's journaling prompt thing that he has.

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I was like, I've never tried his.

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Let me try it.

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I looked it up.

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And it was like, the last question was five questions.

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The last question was,

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What do I need to do right now?

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And I was just like stuck in paralysis.

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And I chose something that has nothing to do with like the three things that I

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filled out in that form.

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It has nothing to do with those things.

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Like the actual answer I gave after like five minutes of staring at this was this

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client project that's on the deck next week.

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I could feel the default into that without like the intentional,

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this is the thing I'm working on.

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Yeah,

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everything is feel I don't want to say feels like urgent,

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but everything does feel important.

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And normally I'm really good at finding the dependencies and being like,

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oh,

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this needs to happen first.

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But it's like I'm not convinced all the way for either for like any of the things.

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So because I'm not convinced all the way, I'll just default to whatever's coming up next week.

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Yeah.

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So frustrating.

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Yeah.

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Right, because it could be, it's like, yeah, am I defaulting to what's easy?

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Am I avoiding the intention that I'm setting?

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With the things that you wrote in that list before defaulting to the client,

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Did you actually feel like those were things that really mattered to you or were

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those in some ways also a default?

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I think they're important to do.

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I don't know if I can say that they matter to me,

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but they feel important,

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which I just realized they feel important.

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And I guess when I say they feel important,

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I mean,

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I can see the leverage points for each one of them really clearly,

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but there's still like a disconnect on if they actually matter to me.

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Yeah, I think they're important.

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I can see the leverage point.

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You're like, what do you care?

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And do I care about that?

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Yeah, it's such a great thing to pull out of anything.

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So let's let's sit in like, let's allow those to kind of go away.

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Because I think you're saying in this just in this moment,

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let's stick with what you actually kind of care about.

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And let's say that those might be a good idea for somebody to do or someone in my

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position could do this and it would be beneficial for them.

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You know, is there an area or what area do you feel more connected to?

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And maybe that's not obvious to you and we can explore that,

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but is there something else that now starts to surface once those have gone away?

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Yeah, there is, but it has legitimately nothing to do with anything in the sense

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It has legitimately nothing to do with anything.

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And I want you to finish the sentence.

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Related to what?

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Related to the business.

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Okay.

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So I have something important that's coming to the surface and it has nothing to do

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related to the business.

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Yeah.

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And right now that scene is maybe not okay, but let's include it in this.

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So what's coming up?

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Yes, it was coming up for me is this this desire to compose.

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So when I was younger, I used to compose music.

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I used to do like scores for little films.

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And I haven't done it in many, many years.

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And it's just it's just something that is rising to the top.

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A lot.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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A lot.

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OK.

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More than just this.

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More than just today.

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Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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Yeah, it's just like I don't, but I also don't give any like space to it.

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So part of me is like,

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well,

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if I gave space to it,

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would it,

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you know,

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would it still be coming up as much?

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I haven't really tested that.

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So it keeps kind of like pushing up.

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It keeps kind of bubbling up and then it keeps getting kind of pushed away.

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Yeah.

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And I wonder,

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I think what we don't know is what happens if you allow,

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what would happen if you allow yourself to have some space for that?

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Yeah.

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Yeah,

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I think it's funny because for me,

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the business has always been this channel of impact,

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but it's also this big channel of freedom.

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And so in my mind, I'm like, oh, I want to do this thing.

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Let's build the runways to do this thing.

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And I kind of get stuck in that weird loop.

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I don't have the freedom yet to compose music in my business.

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Is that what you're saying?

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Yeah, that's what I tell myself, but it's like such bullshit.

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And I know that it's bullshit.

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I can feel it when I say it out loud, but there is like a mental block.

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I think there's like,

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because when I get really into something,

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I sort of fall into it,

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like truly.

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And so the idea of being like, well, I'll give myself an hour or two hours.

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It doesn't, it's just like so surface level.

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And so I'm like not even attracted to that idea.

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How many hours sounds good?

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I agree.

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One or two hours.

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It's too little, right?

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So I'm sure what's bubbling up.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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I want a week.

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I want a week to just compose music.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That would be good.

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And I want to build a business to have the freedom to take a week off to compose music.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Like with that being the only thing I'm thinking about.

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So those two things are aligned.

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You're building a business that can create freedom and you have this desire to

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compose music for a week.

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I think the interesting question,

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given that it keeps popping up,

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is at what point in your business will you be ready,

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able,

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available to take off a week?

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And what's preventing that from being now?

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Yeah, that's a good question.

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I think if I were to communicate it properly to certain clients, it would be fine.

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But what ends up happening is I,

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and I can see it started from afar,

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is I'll tell myself,

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well,

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I have four projects on deck.

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Let me close those out.

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If I could just really focus and do this in a sprint in four or five or six hours,

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then I'll clear it up and then,

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you know,

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have a little bit of space.

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And I tell myself that.

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But then it's like I have no creative energy left.

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I've just given it to the client.

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Yeah,

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and what I read a little,

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just for people watching and listening,

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that there's also maybe you're feeling a little less of that creative energy just

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in general,

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right?

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And so might it be that the composing is what brings that energy back?

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I think the order of operations here is kind of maybe what we're playing, which is...

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What if doing the music improves my business?

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What if that frees my creativity up?

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What if creating the space to do that helps me create a business that allows me to

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keep taking space in this way,

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which is why I'm building it in the first place?

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Man,

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David,

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my stomach is turning at the thought of that because it feels accurate and also

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like a dummy moment for me.

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This is so interesting.

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Yeah, I could see that being the case.

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I definitely know that when I am in that space of composing or making something,

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The creative energy is up.

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I guess I just never thought about it in that way.

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You can overflow into other areas of your life.

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Yeah, I think.

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Yeah.

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And I do think there's like the sense of and we talked a little bit about this last

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time where I definitely have it over responsibility.

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It's something I've been working on for a while and it's something I'm getting

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better at very slowly.

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But I think because of that, the business always comes first.

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And so it doesn't even cross my mind that put me first.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Or like,

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because there's not like a,

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there's no aim really for a monetary return on the music side.

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It is, it is for me.

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I do share it and people love it.

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I think this is something that's really interesting too,

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is people when like people will message me and be like,

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post a song,

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like just post,

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you know,

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which is so cool.

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It's so validating, but there's nothing in my brain that's like, Oh, I should, you know,

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do more with that everything has been a very personal like oh I would love to just

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take a week maybe two weeks and like just put together like four or five songs and

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just like put it out there I think that would be so fun but because I can't tie it

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to money I'm like

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That's not, that doesn't go first.

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Which I think you're enlightening me on this.

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That might be the wrong way to look at it.

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Well, and you told me the reason for the business in the first place was to have the freedom.

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Yeah.

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To do that type of thing.

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Yeah.

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And so the hard thing is when will I start participating in that freedom?

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It's really easy to have that be some fictional point in the future,

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which you probably already set a milestone that you've already crossed.

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Yeah.

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And then now it's just natural.

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We all do that, right?

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Especially as entrepreneurs, you kind of move the gold post.

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Yeah, I change it, yeah.

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And, and I think it doesn't, there's not an either or there's just sort of a more or less.

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Am I using this freedom that I've created for myself already in my business?

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I mean, I do know from our previous conversation, you've had a business for some time now.

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So am I getting some of the fruits of that labor now?

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Maybe it's not a full, maybe you don't feel ready for a full week.

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Maybe that's a few days instead.

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I'm not sure.

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what the right amount is at this stage.

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And what I hear is that you would enjoy,

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benefit,

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it would be life-giving,

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creative giving for you to have some relationship to the music soon,

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now.

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Yeah.

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When I think of my business,

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I'm super grateful because I work realistically 20 or 30 hours a week.

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And so in my brain, I'm like, I have the freedom.

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I just don't have it in the way that I want.

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Or maybe I do and I'm just not giving it to myself in the way that I want, you know?

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What type of freedom do you want?

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Let's clarify that because that's really helpful.

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Yeah, I want the immersion.

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That's a big thing for me.

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Even when I think of other things that I want to do,

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like,

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you know,

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one of my sort of,

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I don't want to call it like a bucket list thing,

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but it is a thing that I would like to do is I spent some time in Paris,

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but I would love to actually take a language class in Paris.

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I'd like to do it for a week.

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And I'd like that immersion.

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And so I think for me, freedom doesn't mean 20 hours a week.

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It means

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leaving and just like, you know, immersing myself in a thing, in a place or in an activity.

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I think that that is what freedom means to me.

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So the freedom you built in your business was a slack in your schedule that

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actually isn't being maybe used to the degree you want because the type of freedom

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you want is this deep,

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immersive experience.

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And I love that we've got some specific examples of that.

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A week in Paris, language immersion.

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Yeah.

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a week or two weeks composing music.

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And you can place these out right through the calendar year, however you want them to be.

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That's a new way of working with the freedom that you can create in your business.

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That's a great point.

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Yeah.

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Is there any other,

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just since we're in this,

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a week,

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and you don't have to do any of these,

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we're just brainstorming,

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a week in Paris learning languages,

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a week or two weeks composing.

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Anything else come to mind like that?

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Let's just add it anymore.

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Two years, oh, is it 2025?

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Yeah.

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In 2023, there was a time that I felt super inspired as in Chicago.

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And I took like, legitimately, it was about six weeks off of just like writing poems.

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And I did like a very, I was kind of in maintenance mode on the business.

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And I was fine.

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I like loved it.

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When I look back on that time, I'm like, I am so grateful for that time.

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But it wasn't planned.

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It wasn't anticipated.

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It was like, this is where I am and I can do this.

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Like, let's just do it.

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And when I look back on that, it doesn't feel like, oh, I wasted time.

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It's like one of the best times of my life.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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100%.

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I love that you have an example to pull on.

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You've done this before.

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Yeah, but I guess I haven't done it with much intention.

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I think that's what it is.

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It's like I've done it because I've sort of I've sort of fallen into it.

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And it was like, I have to in the best way.

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You know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And that could be your model.

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You know, I you could you can continue to do it that way.

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I think I have to do it with intention because I think to wait for that is like

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creates a weird burnout.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So this is a great opportunity.

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We're kind of towards the end of the year.

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You know, what is what does creating this with intention look like?

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And you don't need to solve it all or have it all figured out.

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But let's just look at what you might do to create more intention in freedom and

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doing some of these things in your business.

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Like, for example, would you plan your year out in advance with big time off?

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Would you tell your clients in advance just what comes to mind?

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I probably book a ticket.

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That usually is my milestone.

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Nice.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I love that.

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Milestone is booking the ticket.

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Yeah, because I know that when that happens, I get to play.

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I know that, you know, and that's wonderful.

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I love that so much.

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It's a very great experience.

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But yeah, that's a good one.

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Even like the last time.

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So I was in London for three months and I loved it.

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And I actually went without much intention except to like take pictures of cool

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buildings and to work from there.

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Like that was like the thing that I wanted to do.

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But yeah, I do.

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I think that something happens where I'm like, yeah, I was in London.

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I took hundreds of pictures of buildings and I was like,

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oh,

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I should totally do like a little photo book of this.

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It'd be so cool.

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But then like the moment I start in something like that, I'm like, what am I doing?

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I'm not doing anything that's,

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you know,

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that's like helping the business and it's vulnerable,

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not in a good way.

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Why am I doing that?

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And then so I'll pull back on that project or I'll start it and there'll be like,

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you know,

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15%,

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20% of the way there.

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You were still working there.

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You didn't allow for the full immersion.

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Yeah.

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And so this voice,

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which is kind of a separate conversation,

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keeps kind of coming back and then it's like,

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well,

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which am I immersed or am I working?

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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And so it's like I'm never fully in either one.

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So I want to kind of pause here to lay out what I think could be a fun sort of

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opportunity,

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which is defining three of these tickets that you can purchase ahead of time for

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the year.

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Okay.

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One could be an actual ticket.

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Yeah.

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And I want to share personally my relationship to what we're talking about because

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I've also navigated this a little bit,

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if that's okay,

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if I share that as well.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So what I found,

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and I've done this with a lot of clients I work with as well,

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is when my clients and when I have set part of my calendar out ahead of time,

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which actually this was inspired by Jesse Itzler.

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I don't know if you've heard his stuff online or whatever, but he's got a good kind of

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framing on this but what I found is that if you lay out part of your year in

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advance time off something fun for you he does like hard projects that he'll put

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slotted in like a trip or something like that where it's like a climb a mountain

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type of thing but when you have that laid out across your year

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Two things I notice happen for myself and for entrepreneurs.

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One is you have all this really enjoyable anticipation.

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Like you just know the stuff is coming.

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Like, you know, hey, this is in my calendar.

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It's happening.

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Not only do I know for sure my immersion is happening, learning language is happening.

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Like,

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it's just exciting to just like kind of see your calendar and be like,

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wow,

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I just have like such a cool year like coming up and it's happening.

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So there's just like an excitement that I think you get from that.

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You know, the anticipation of a trip is just like fun.

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And the other thing is what I noticed for founders and entrepreneurs is you have a

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diversity of experience.

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so that your life feels less monotonous, right?

(00:15:45):
When you get in this cycle of the client work and it's just heads down and it's

(00:15:49):
like,

(00:15:49):
you're so tunneled in,

(00:15:51):
you start to lose some of that diversity of like just rich experiences,

(00:15:56):
like I'm doing this.

(00:15:57):
And then it's like this completely other thing.

(00:15:59):
And I think founder types,

(00:16:00):
like you want to do a lot and you like excited,

(00:16:03):
you're curious about a lot.

(00:16:04):
And so like, it's nice to feed that.

(00:16:06):
And I think it balances the work really nicely as well.

(00:16:09):
It's like,

(00:16:10):
I just was learning this language and now I'm kind of back, right?

(00:16:13):
So it adds a texture to your year that I think is really,

(00:16:16):
like you said,

(00:16:16):
you remember in 2023 having that,

(00:16:18):
it's like a memorable experience.

(00:16:20):
So yeah,

(00:16:21):
book,

(00:16:21):
I would book in advance three tickets to something for yourself for next year and

(00:16:26):
then just know

(00:16:28):
I'm building my business around that.

(00:16:30):
Yeah.

(00:16:30):
I actually really, I really, I do really like that.

(00:16:34):
I think the challenge for me is going to be making them weighty, right?

(00:16:39):
So minimum a week.

(00:16:43):
Yeah.

(00:16:44):
Yeah.

(00:16:44):
Minimum a week, I would say.

(00:16:45):
And then I think sometimes I get stuck where I'm like,

(00:16:48):
oh,

(00:16:49):
you know,

(00:16:49):
if I'm going to go here for a month,

(00:16:50):
I have to do this in order to like justify or earn it,

(00:16:54):
you know,

(00:16:55):
like not doesn't make sense when I say it out loud.

(00:16:58):
But that is something that comes up.

(00:17:00):
There's also something else that comes up that I'm going to bounce off you.

(00:17:03):
But I am aware that this is probably something and it is something for me to work

(00:17:08):
through personally.

(00:17:09):
But

(00:17:10):
it came up while you were talking while you're telling that story which is i had

(00:17:13):
this experience of planning out something the big goal was taking my parents on a

(00:17:19):
trip going on a trip with my parents to europe and so we had done this and so i'd

(00:17:23):
planned this in advance so for me it was like the work was easy to do because i saw

(00:17:27):
this coming you know i saw this awesome trip coming up and then my dad passed away

(00:17:33):
like six days before the trip yeah

(00:17:35):
And there is,

(00:17:36):
like,

(00:17:36):
something,

(00:17:37):
I would say,

(00:17:38):
like,

(00:17:38):
since then that's,

(00:17:39):
like,

(00:17:39):
it's almost like I don't want to,

(00:17:44):
when I put it on the calendar,

(00:17:45):
like,

(00:17:45):
what ends up happening is I don't put it on the calendar now with this sort of,

(00:17:48):
like,

(00:17:49):
anticipation,

(00:17:49):
like,

(00:17:50):
oh,

(00:17:50):
I'm going to work really hard and then do the thing.

(00:17:52):
Because I don't think that.

(00:17:54):
Or at least my body doesn't think that.

(00:17:57):
It's more so like I'm just going to continue as normal.

(00:18:01):
And then if I get there and I'm able to go, I will go on this thing.

(00:18:04):
You know, it's like there isn't like this.

(00:18:06):
Sure.

(00:18:07):
This like confidence that like I'm going to get to do the thing.

(00:18:10):
And so because I don't have the confidence to do it, I'm like.

(00:18:14):
Do I really try hard right now?

(00:18:17):
You know what I mean?

(00:18:18):
Two things.

(00:18:18):
One,

(00:18:18):
I'm so happy you brought this up because this is an example of an experience you've

(00:18:22):
had that is really difficult around having a trip planned,

(00:18:27):
having the anticipation,

(00:18:29):
having your father pass before that.

(00:18:31):
So I really appreciate bringing that up because it's an experience that is really

(00:18:36):
informing this on some level.

(00:18:38):
And so I do think that that's something to work with.

(00:18:43):
What I'm hearing you say is,

(00:18:46):
slightly different though on top of that,

(00:18:48):
which is I need to be motivated in a certain way to get the reward of the trip or I

(00:18:54):
need to be working harder before the trip or,

(00:18:56):
and so help me understand what the point of that is.

(00:19:00):
That's a good question.

(00:19:04):
Yeah, there's definitely a sense of earning that I think is embedded.

(00:19:09):
It's like, well, if you get to do this, you have to do something for it, which I don't know.

(00:19:13):
I know that that doesn't make sense out loud.

(00:19:15):
Yeah.

(00:19:16):
And isn't the, I mean, obviously these things cost money.

(00:19:19):
They take time.

(00:19:20):
Like, I guess in some ways it isn't the earning that you're creating a business.

(00:19:23):
You already, you already earned that.

(00:19:25):
Right.

(00:19:25):
I mean, what is, you know,

(00:19:27):
Yeah.

(00:19:27):
You're like, what is the thing that I have to earn?

(00:19:30):
You're doing the work already.

(00:19:32):
I think we're talking about the extra.

(00:19:34):
Why is that?

(00:19:35):
What is the purpose of the extra work?

(00:19:37):
Yes.

(00:19:37):
What is the extra work for?

(00:19:39):
Yeah.

(00:19:40):
And if it felt good and it was like,

(00:19:41):
oh,

(00:19:42):
I'm going to do a little more work,

(00:19:43):
create a little more income and then I can splurge like that's that's aligned.

(00:19:48):
Yeah.

(00:19:50):
This isn't like that.

(00:19:51):
I kind of wish it was that.

(00:19:53):
That was a little better.

(00:19:54):
Yeah.

(00:19:54):
Yeah.

(00:19:55):
But yeah, it's not really that I'm not sure.

(00:19:58):
I think I think I feel guilty a little bit.

(00:20:00):
I think I feel a little bit guilty that I get to do it.

(00:20:07):
Yeah.

(00:20:09):
It's weird.

(00:20:10):
It doesn't need to be this way because it could be with yourself.

(00:20:12):
But is there a relationship like is that in relationship to someone else or is that

(00:20:17):
with yourself the guilt?

(00:20:19):
I think it is with myself,

(00:20:22):
but it's like,

(00:20:22):
it's because of,

(00:20:25):
I would say,

(00:20:25):
a lot of the core people around me.

(00:20:28):
And so when I'm,

(00:20:29):
depending on where I am,

(00:20:31):
to be totally honest,

(00:20:33):
I think this is one of the things I really appreciated about being in London is I

(00:20:36):
felt really surrounded by people who sort of got it and they worked like me and

(00:20:42):
they shared the same values.

(00:20:43):
Whereas like when I'm in Phoenix, if I'm surrounded by, you know, my mom or a

(00:20:48):
my siblings, it's like everyone else is a pretty traditional work environment.

(00:20:54):
And so they just think I'm playing all the time,

(00:20:57):
which of course I know that I'm not,

(00:20:59):
but it's,

(00:20:59):
I feel bad.

(00:21:00):
I do.

(00:21:00):
I feel bad.

(00:21:01):
I feel like, I don't know.

(00:21:03):
I just, I don't really, I feel like if I don't tell them that I'm going here to do this thing,

(00:21:10):
Even though they're so supportive.

(00:21:12):
To be honest, even with my mother, she's always like, go.

(00:21:15):
If you have a chance to go, go.

(00:21:17):
Super supportive.

(00:21:20):
Then I'll speak to her and she's worked a 60-hour week and she has a week off every year.

(00:21:26):
I'm just like, I kind of feel like an asshole.

(00:21:29):
I'll invite her and I will do all the things that I think will make me feel better,

(00:21:34):
which is strange.

(00:21:36):
But...

(00:21:38):
What's the judgment against you?

(00:21:39):
Like from myself, you mean?

(00:21:41):
Yeah, or from others.

(00:21:42):
What's the judgment that you're just playing?

(00:21:45):
Yeah, that's definitely a big one.

(00:21:47):
Yeah, I think that's a big one.

(00:21:49):
Even when someone jokes, it must be nice.

(00:21:52):
It like stings a bit.

(00:21:55):
And I feel like I was in a different place mentally or emotionally with it.

(00:21:59):
I could take it as the joke.

(00:22:02):
What do you want to say in that?

(00:22:03):
What do you want to say?

(00:22:04):
I want to say I worked my ass off.

(00:22:07):
Yeah.

(00:22:07):
Yeah.

(00:22:07):
Okay.

(00:22:08):
Yeah.

(00:22:08):
Right.

(00:22:09):
Right.

(00:22:09):
That's really what I want to say.

(00:22:10):
I want to say I worked my ass off for, for a long fucking time.

(00:22:14):
Yeah.

(00:22:15):
I was like a kid since I was like 15 without a social life.

(00:22:19):
Like, right.

(00:22:20):
And I loved it.

(00:22:21):
Don't get me wrong.

(00:22:21):
It was, I loved it.

(00:22:23):
It was, when we moved from Chicago to Arizona, it didn't have any of my cousins around me.

(00:22:29):
Didn't have it.

(00:22:29):
You know, I was like,

(00:22:31):
young teenagers and have any like easy friends in the beginning and it was like the

(00:22:35):
thing i did for fun but it's also work and now i want and now i want what i worked

(00:22:43):
my ass off and now i want freedom i don't know yeah what would you tell them i

(00:22:49):
would say and now i want to just go and play and have the freedom to play yeah yeah

(00:22:55):
Yeah, I it's you know, it's tough to say that to an immigrant mother.

(00:23:01):
She's like, I have been through a war.

(00:23:03):
And it's funny because like she truly is like she she would never make me feel bad.

(00:23:06):
I think my my partner kind of what my siblings certainly would not in any real way,

(00:23:11):
but they would definitely make jokes.

(00:23:14):
Right.

(00:23:14):
And so now it's kind of like, I mean, how does it feel sharing?

(00:23:17):
How are you feeling right now?

(00:23:19):
Just like saying, I work my ass off.

(00:23:21):
How does it all feel now?

(00:23:22):
It's quite validating to be like, yeah, go on your phone.

(00:23:26):
Yeah.

(00:23:27):
Yeah.

(00:23:27):
Right.

(00:23:28):
Right.

(00:23:28):
So maybe that's a little of that feeling like in some ways we can play into the

(00:23:33):
story we have about what the dynamic is and how we're coming off.

(00:23:36):
And so I'm hearing you kind of show up in a way that feels better for you.

(00:23:40):
Yeah.

(00:23:41):
It's harder,

(00:23:42):
easier said than done,

(00:23:43):
but it's like holding that space a little bit of like,

(00:23:46):
oh,

(00:23:46):
yeah,

(00:23:46):
like,

(00:23:46):
hold on,

(00:23:47):
I can tap back into I worked my ass off.

(00:23:49):
Wait, actually, I'm good.

(00:23:50):
Yeah.

(00:23:50):
And I want to do I want to have no agenda or plan on this trip.

(00:23:54):
Yeah, I definitely feel much more open to that.

(00:23:56):
Thanks for breaking that for me, David.

(00:23:58):
You're really good at breaking things, which I like about you.

(00:24:02):
Yeah, yeah.

(00:24:04):
So that's kind of the,

(00:24:05):
and I wonder in showing up in that way,

(00:24:08):
how that's then received or if there's as much of that kind of like relational

(00:24:12):
stickiness that,

(00:24:14):
you may have felt in the past um i want to take us to one kind of last place here

(00:24:20):
if you're if you're open to it which is because you've brought it up twice now in

(00:24:24):
your note in our last conversation about your mom and that there's some

(00:24:28):
responsibility there maybe it relates to this trip maybe it doesn't i guess yeah i

(00:24:32):
just want to explore that a little bit are you are you open to that absolutely yeah

(00:24:35):
yeah that like relationship because because

(00:24:39):
Yeah, I wonder where responsibility sits.

(00:24:41):
You were saying something about that,

(00:24:43):
like responsibility to your mom and where that is in this context we're talking

(00:24:47):
about.

(00:24:48):
Yeah, that's a great question.

(00:24:49):
It's funny, I have a couple different ways of looking at it.

(00:24:51):
The bigger way,

(00:24:53):
it's interesting,

(00:24:54):
actually,

(00:24:54):
now that you even bring this up,

(00:24:55):
I'm thinking of,

(00:24:57):
I have responsibility in like two ways,

(00:24:59):
which is so interesting.

(00:25:01):
With my mom, I would say,

(00:25:03):
that I feel this sensibility to create a business that is more sustainable,

(00:25:08):
that I am not necessarily the bottleneck of.

(00:25:12):
The revenue goals and things like that,

(00:25:14):
I feel very responsible to my mother who,

(00:25:17):
God bless her,

(00:25:18):
never really asked for anything,

(00:25:19):
but I definitely feel this sense of responsibility.

(00:25:23):
Whereas it's so funny,

(00:25:24):
like when I think of now,

(00:25:25):
when I travel,

(00:25:26):
I also feel a sense of responsibility too.

(00:25:29):
I have an aunt that I love.

(00:25:31):
I just love her so much.

(00:25:32):
We actually think really similarly, but she's not mobile.

(00:25:35):
She's moved and she loves the world.

(00:25:37):
And so when I go, I take pictures and I post pictures and it's like a very,

(00:25:41):
intentional I am bringing you with me you know beautiful yeah and I love it and I

(00:25:48):
think when it comes to the social side of things like people people really

(00:25:52):
appreciate it which I think is very cool because it's like a different approach to

(00:25:55):
social and I like that because I think of her all the time anytime I'm seeing like

(00:25:59):
something beautiful

(00:26:00):
But yeah,

(00:26:00):
when it comes to my mom,

(00:26:01):
I'm definitely thinking like,

(00:26:02):
oh,

(00:26:03):
I need,

(00:26:03):
you know,

(00:26:04):
I should do this.

(00:26:05):
I should do the revenue goal.

(00:26:07):
I should do, I should hire on and like make this more sustainable.

(00:26:10):
I should, you know, productize this better.

(00:26:14):
Like the, I don't want to say an obligation to her, but that sense of over responsibility.

(00:26:20):
I think what it does is it puts me in a more secure place to help her.

(00:26:27):
That's it.

(00:26:28):
Financially, so you feel there's specific financial support that you want to provide.

(00:26:33):
Is that what we're talking about?

(00:26:36):
It almost feels like a responsibility to level things up for her,

(00:26:42):
even if she doesn't care about it.

(00:26:44):
Even if she has a car that runs fine, I'm like, we should get you a better car.

(00:26:49):
If she's got a house, she's okay.

(00:26:51):
And I'm like, well, I know you really want a big backyard.

(00:26:52):
Yeah.

(00:26:53):
You know,

(00:26:53):
like I get very like,

(00:26:55):
and for some reason I have volunteered as tribute to be the channel for this.

(00:27:01):
Yeah.

(00:27:01):
Yeah.

(00:27:02):
I have a potentially difficult question,

(00:27:06):
which is how,

(00:27:07):
how are you,

(00:27:08):
how have you been participating?

(00:27:10):
Well,

(00:27:10):
real quick,

(00:27:11):
but the ant thing,

(00:27:11):
that's awesome because you build connection with her through the travel and like,

(00:27:17):
that's just so,

(00:27:19):
so great,

(00:27:19):
you know,

(00:27:20):
that whole process.

(00:27:21):
So I really love that.

(00:27:22):
And I think it's a cool part of this travel thing for you and that connection.

(00:27:26):
And so,

(00:27:27):
There's this very aligned connection between you two where you get to go do the

(00:27:30):
thing and then there's the sharing.

(00:27:32):
And so that's amazing.

(00:27:34):
Thank you.

(00:27:34):
It's funny because every time I'm in those cities where I have friends,

(00:27:37):
they always message me and they're like,

(00:27:39):
I love the way you see where I live.

(00:27:42):
And other people too.

(00:27:43):
Yeah, they love it.

(00:27:44):
People know if I'm traveling based on whether or not I'm posting.

(00:27:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

(00:27:49):
So that's great.

(00:27:51):
And that aligns with what we talked about at the beginning.

(00:27:53):
You know,

(00:27:53):
with your mom,

(00:27:54):
and this is a more complex topic,

(00:27:56):
and our relationship with our parents is the most complex of all the areas to work

(00:28:00):
through interpersonally.

(00:28:02):
There's so much there.

(00:28:03):
What I am curious about is,

(00:28:06):
how has that support been shown over time?

(00:28:10):
Meaning, have you been, let me just throw this out there.

(00:28:13):
Have you been, Hey, I got an extra client, got some cash.

(00:28:16):
Here's a gift.

(00:28:19):
Now you're bonded, you know, and like, that was great.

(00:28:21):
And then you go do it again and it's a different thing or like,

(00:28:23):
is that,

(00:28:24):
I know this is a harder question,

(00:28:25):
but has that been happening or is this imagined of something you might do one day?

(00:28:31):
Yeah, that's a great question because to be totally honest, it is mostly imagined now.

(00:28:37):
In the past, it's been being the person who is dependent on when all else fails.

(00:28:46):
Like my mother doesn't really ask for help, so she asks for help because she needs something.

(00:28:50):
But it's kind of this like, you know, you need to buy a ticket to Australia tomorrow.

(00:28:57):
No problem.

(00:28:59):
it's not an issue covering when it's needed yeah exactly exactly that's not a

(00:29:02):
problem we got it yeah there's something you know up with the car needs fixing

(00:29:08):
don't want you to worry about it we can we can do this together like it's like that

(00:29:11):
is the thing is like there's a sense of dependability that i take a i take a bit of

(00:29:17):
pride in i will say and i think i'm pretty good about knowing the difference

(00:29:22):
usually of like when that's really you know needed and not

(00:29:27):
That sounds like a good thing.

(00:29:28):
And it sounds like it's something that you,

(00:29:31):
that there's not as much of like a extra thing in that,

(00:29:35):
that it's,

(00:29:36):
I got you,

(00:29:36):
I'm dependable when you need it.

(00:29:38):
It like works well in the same way that with your aunt,

(00:29:41):
you could build this connection from travel.

(00:29:42):
It's like with your mom, this dependability, the financial support when it's there.

(00:29:47):
Like, so now we're kind of talking about this extra part.

(00:29:51):
So that, that I almost, to me feels very like aligned and I totally,

(00:29:56):
I think that if you're working and building your business to say,

(00:29:58):
I want to continue to be that dependable person.

(00:30:00):
Less pressure.

(00:30:02):
It's less pressure.

(00:30:02):
Yeah.

(00:30:03):
It's less like,

(00:30:03):
yes,

(00:30:04):
you're being less pressured to do something else that maybe is,

(00:30:07):
it's unclear how necessary it is or not.

(00:30:09):
Like, yeah, that's, it's a line.

(00:30:10):
That's the best way I can put it.

(00:30:11):
Yeah.

(00:30:13):
So dependability, like that feels good.

(00:30:14):
Yeah.

(00:30:16):
I definitely have some pride around it.

(00:30:17):
Yeah.

(00:30:18):
Yeah.

(00:30:18):
And I don't think the pride is a bad thing.

(00:30:19):
I think it's a good thing.

(00:30:20):
And so like,

(00:30:22):
Growing that or staying with that,

(00:30:25):
you know,

(00:30:25):
I think can be a good driver,

(00:30:27):
a good motivator,

(00:30:29):
not a pressure motivator.

(00:30:30):
This imagined thing,

(00:30:31):
you know,

(00:30:33):
it's a different thing to tackle because it's thinking something,

(00:30:36):
I must be doing something else other than that.

(00:30:39):
Yeah.

(00:30:40):
You know, and and I think there there's more to unpack there.

(00:30:45):
I want to be conscious of time.

(00:30:47):
What I will say as a starting point for that is and it's funny because where my

(00:30:51):
mind goes is the love languages.

(00:30:53):
I don't know if you know that book.

(00:30:55):
It's such a service.

(00:30:56):
fantastic model of things it really works well in relationships I almost this is

(00:31:02):
kind of funny but I'm almost curious what her love languages are like what what

(00:31:07):
does she want and does that align right because we might want to give gifts for

(00:31:10):
people but that's not how they what they need you know how they want to so and so

(00:31:16):
some dialogue or some testing or some way of seeing hey this other imagined thing

(00:31:21):
that I might do

(00:31:22):
is that actually important?

(00:31:24):
And that could actually just be a conversation too.

(00:31:27):
Like I've been feeling this pressure and I like want to do this and it could come

(00:31:32):
with reassurance.

(00:31:34):
You know, I want to tell you, I'll tell you quickly a personal thing.

(00:31:36):
You know, my, my wife has a very traditional job.

(00:31:38):
I have a very, I've been an entrepreneur for a really long time and I've had that pressure of,

(00:31:44):
you know,

(00:31:44):
shouldn't my work be a little bit more like straightforward or like not going in

(00:31:48):
different directions,

(00:31:49):
right?

(00:31:49):
And so I felt this pressure, probably still sometimes do feel that pressure.

(00:31:53):
And I'm like,

(00:31:55):
And in bringing that up with my wife,

(00:31:56):
it's like,

(00:31:57):
she's like,

(00:31:57):
oh,

(00:31:57):
well,

(00:31:58):
you're just not that person.

(00:31:59):
Like you'll never do.

(00:32:00):
Wow.

(00:32:01):
That type of thing.

(00:32:02):
That you don't have.

(00:32:03):
Yeah.

(00:32:03):
So I'm like, oh, okay, great.

(00:32:04):
Like, I'm happy to hear that validation that you see me that way.

(00:32:07):
Because I was thinking I also had to be this extra person.

(00:32:09):
And it was helpful to hear her say, no, like you're not that person.

(00:32:13):
So like, I don't put anything to do that.

(00:32:15):
So some dialogue, again, I don't know where your relationship is at.

(00:32:20):
And again, things are complex, but speaking to it could help.

(00:32:24):
Yeah, that's a great point.

(00:32:25):
I think if I would,

(00:32:26):
that's when I even just imagine that,

(00:32:28):
and I will talk to her about the section.

(00:32:29):
I think it's a great conversation because I know the moment that I say it,

(00:32:34):
she's going to be like,

(00:32:35):
that's not your job.

(00:32:37):
And then I will start crying because I'm like,

(00:32:40):
you know,

(00:32:41):
because I'm like,

(00:32:41):
I want you to be taken care of.

(00:32:43):
I get this like panic of like,

(00:32:45):
Yeah.

(00:32:45):
And maybe stay with that because there might actually be more dialogue than just that.

(00:32:51):
Right.

(00:32:52):
Because like, it might be something about why isn't it my job?

(00:32:55):
Like there might actually be a little more.

(00:32:57):
Okay.

(00:32:58):
Okay.

(00:32:59):
Yeah, exactly.

(00:33:00):
Like, it's kind of like, you know, someone being like, well, don't worry about that.

(00:33:03):
It's like, well, I'm still worried.

(00:33:04):
Yeah.

(00:33:07):
Yeah,

(00:33:08):
really what there might be is an insight about how your mom views that that is

(00:33:14):
enlightening to why there's less pressure than you think.

(00:33:17):
Yeah, that's so helpful, David.

(00:33:18):
Thank you.

(00:33:19):
Yeah, I really appreciate that.

(00:33:21):
Absolutely.

(00:33:22):
So I'm going to send you a recap.

(00:33:24):
The thing that I would recommend most is carving the time out in advance for something.

(00:33:30):
So yeah,

(00:33:31):
just saying like next year,

(00:33:32):
no matter what,

(00:33:33):
I've got these three things coming up and I'm

(00:33:36):
And I will work around that.

(00:33:38):
And maybe you'll actually work in new ways to create that outcome,

(00:33:42):
not in a pressured way,

(00:33:43):
but just,

(00:33:43):
you know,

(00:33:43):
it's there.

(00:33:44):
So that's what I'd recommend.

(00:33:46):
Yeah, I will totally do that.

(00:33:47):
And I'm very good about using like natural milestones.

(00:33:49):
I have like a lease up end of March.

(00:33:52):
Nice.

(00:33:53):
Perfect.

(00:33:54):
Yeah.

(00:33:55):
Yeah.

(00:33:55):
Yeah.

(00:33:55):
Book the ticket,

(00:33:56):
use the lease,

(00:33:57):
like do the thing,

(00:33:57):
tell your friends,

(00:33:58):
I've been working really hard for this.

(00:34:00):
I'm going to go play for a while.

(00:34:01):
Yeah.

(00:34:02):
You know, and.

(00:34:03):
No, I will do that.

(00:34:04):
That'll be part of my year end, my year end planning for sure.

(00:34:07):
Yeah.

(00:34:07):
Awesome.

(00:34:08):
Thanks, David.

(00:34:08):
This has been really, you're so good at like opening people up.

(00:34:13):
And like, and really just bring insight.

(00:34:15):
Yeah.

(00:34:15):
It's really, it's really powerful.

(00:34:16):
And I'm, I'm really grateful to do this with you.

(00:34:19):
Thank you.

(00:34:20):
Thank you.

(00:34:20):
Thanks for being here.

(00:34:21):
Of course.

(00:34:23):
Sweet.

(00:34:24):
All right.

(00:34:24):
I look forward to the recap.